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This is torture that will not end until you can believe in witches.

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311 No. 311 edit hide watch quickreply [Reply]

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78 No. 78 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply] [Last 50 posts]
Setting aside for the moment the question of whether we need to know, whether it matters, etc., just who was responsible for all that stuff going down and/or blowing up anyhow?

Was Yasu a psycho killer burning down the house like that song by the Talking Heads, "And She Was?" Is she a hilariously effective scapegoat for some dickhead like George or Battler? Was it Kyrie randomly discarding all her characterization to go on a shooting spree for money she isn't able to prove actually exists? Did Maria finally show them, show them all? Comedy Ange Option?

Note that "fine Japanese munitions craftsmanship + Kinzo's gross negligence, stop building houses on top of bombs you dumbass" is an acceptable culprit proposal.
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>> No. 295 edit
Sento is not the detective and a possible culprit Battlers real name is Sento, the first chekhovs gun in ep1.
>> No. 304 edit
I'm confused about something: Featherine/Hachijo refers to herself as her magical witch self AND she's present in other Ryukishi works, right? So magic to SOME extent DOES objectively exist in thsi universe, right?

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154 No. 154 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
So can someone explain to me Hideyoshi's murder behind the closed door with a chain in Episode 5?

It's barely even touched on in the VN, heck, it's not even mentioned in slightest at the Court of Illusions. This second twilight has really been bugging me for quite some time.

In fact, while we're on the topic, who is the culprit of the 5th game? It can't be Shkannon (or can it?), so what the fuck went down there?
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>> No. 165 edit
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Hideyoshi's death seems pretty obviously faked from ep5 alone:

1) He fiddles with the lock initially, expecting it to be locked from the start, and accidentally locks it first. He seems unconcerned at this point about much of anything, even casual.

2) He puts the chain on the door after locking it, then closes the window shutters for no clear reason.

3) He flops noisily on the bed and starts noticeably sobbing about George, after seeming entirely undisturbed by his "death" before that point.

4) He suddenly "notices" a person in the room (where did they come from?) and asks "Who are you?" There shouldn't really be anyone on the island he doesn't know at this point other than possibly "Beatrice."

5) Hideyoshi gets into an audible struggle with the "culprit" at the same time someone is trying to get inside the room from outside.

6) THE CULPRIT DOES NOT LEAVE. Eva has run off to get help, so there shouldn't be anyone directly outside, and the window shutters could be opened if the "culprit" wanted to depart through a window.

7) Nobody else is found anywhere in the room and they deliberately overlook Natsuhi's hiding place for no apparent reason.
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>> No. 190 edit
Not really.

Let's say we have a character with the name Jake Andrews. I tell Jake I like pie. I could say I told Jake I like pie and I told Andrews I like pie and both are true.
>> No. 195 edit
The culprit was hidden under the bed. Killed Hideyoshi.

The room was never investigaded by the detective, so the culprit could just hide inside.

Also, with "the Fall". The culprit did hide 4 cards in the room. After Natshuhi told her favorite season, he just said the location of the Fall card.

Last edited at 13/11/29(Fri)12:41:23
>> No. 296 edit
You did not tell Jake Andrews you like pie

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234 No. 234 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
I believe we can all agree the "shkannotrice" answer is Ryukshi's way of saying "Here you go now shut the fuck up and leave me alone you pieces of shit. -_-"

I mean while I feel that alot of people out right dispise KNM's answer of Rosatrice, I do feel it has some merit behind it all.

Rosa being the culprit also does answer the Who, the why, and the how. Taking into consideration that we observe only the games Beatrice herself has hosted, Rosa being the culprit fits into a lot of the red truths.

I also believe it is to some understanding that chapters 5~8 are meant for more character devving as an over arching story while supplying the reader with hints on how to answer the original tale of chapters 1~4.

also all that Rose symbolism...

I would like to challenge counter arguments on this theory only as a way to further seek the truth. Consider this as another passing witch wanting to stave off boredom for the dread it might actually kill her.
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>> No. 251 edit
I see your point, you mean "why the shkanontrice solution is assumed as the ultimate solution while there are so many plausible answers which answer the who how and whydunnit and also fit the red just fine like KNM's Rosatrice?"

In my interpretation, that's the whole point of Umineko, Ryu always intended to create a mystery with no clearly definitive solution. So Umineko is wrote in a way which allows many "plausible solutions in regards to who how whydunnit and fits all the red"

You see, all the classic mysteries are wrote in a format which allows only one solution, it’s just a matter of puzzling all the alibies and the hints and possibilities and you will find only one possible culprit, that’s a classic mystery right? If in a classic mystery you are able to find an alternative solution, you may be ruining the legitimacy of the author's answer. In this sense, a Classic mystery really is a logic game which a super smart robot will be able to solve by simply puzzling the possibilities.

But Umineko is different, it cannot be solved as a Classic mystery because it simply allows many possibilities to exist and then we goats keep ripping the guts of Umineko and forging many solutions, in fact Ryu does have fun reading all the solutions the fans make up!

That's why Rosatrice, black battler and many other solutions exist and remain consistent with the Red, that is the essence of the whole catbox thing.

BUT! That does not mean there is no ultimate solution as it does exist! The factor that hints for this solution is the "without love it can’t be seen"
One can argue Rosatrice needs love to be seen, but unfortunately not as much as shkanontrice.

Shkanontrice is heavily implied throughout the whole series, once you learn about it, you read a completely different story, trust me, you really do.

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>> No. 252 edit
Not sure if copy pasta, but yeah. This is a decent write up.

Although for records sake, again the servant red isn't applied to Umineko, and I don't think its ever stated in red that there is 18 exactly, just that there is no more than 18. So the only logic is "15 persons + 1(Yasu) + 1(Erika) + = 17 persons". So basically the only argument is the "Yasu's identities shouldn't count as separate", which you explain pretty well is the point of the story.
>> No. 293 edit
Ushiromiya Sento is how you read his name. He is not Battler and the red truth about Battler not being the culprit was nothing more than an illusion of japanese wordplay. Sento can be the culprit.
>> No. 294 edit
Sento, the person you believe to be named battler, is not a detective and subject to give his own story.

Last edited at 20/06/01(Mon)12:40:33

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198 No. 198 edit hide watch expand quickreply [Reply]
Hello, I'm new here and such, I guess(been stalking the site for a long time), yet never felt the need to post until now, due to having a theory and a few questions to ask. So, can anyone here answer why everyone seems so quick to think Yasu was Shannon/Kanon?

Or why everyone(almost everyone) saw our confession as the truth, when it would really seem more like a way of looking at everything in a mystery point of view?

I've been thinking for awhile now, that just because Kanon and Shannon couldn't be in the same room in episode 7, that doesn't mean that they're one and the same, if so then, how were they able to appear in front of Erika(who was the detective in episode 5?

That's kinda a contradiction, isn't it?

I hear a lot of people attacking this point by saying that was due to different Game Masters and such, yet wasn't it made clear in tips like Game Master Battler and other parts of the story that being a Game Master doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, due so many rules being in place.

I feel like half of the fanbase stop thinking once they saw episode 7, irony that's quite funny seeing how Ryukishi tried to avoid this all together with the Chiru arc, especially ep 7 with Yasu.
By the way, it wasn't just I, who happened to feel like s/he noticed from certain characters(mostly Bern and I think Battler at one point)hint at the writer might even lie outside of his work about stuff, was I?

I think something was said around the end of episode 7 from Bern and Battler in episode 8 I'll post screenshots of it later on.

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>I've been thinking for awhile now, that just because Kanon and Shannon couldn't be in the same room in episode 7, that doesn't mean that they're one and the same, if so then, how were they able to appear in front of Erika(who was the detective in episode 5?
>> No. 257 edit
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Battler's name is actually Sento, he is the culprit and the killer. This is why Tohya is black battler's alternate costume in the fighting game. This is the first hint the game ever gives, Sento's name is read as Sento but use weird trickery and translations to give him the nickname Battler. The red text about battler not being the culprit is a red herring. Beatrice was going to be the culprit, but people solve the epitah before it has a chance to commmit the atrocity. Will says Battler has no motive, but he remembers his love for Shannon and see's the ring she has from george, this sets him off on a murderous rampage and his parents help because they want the money to themselve. Shannon helps because she loves battler. Genji helps because Kinzo was child fucker pedophile who abused his kids, and the kids abused their kids, like with Rosa and Maria.

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