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4110 No. 4110 edit
Although this game has been open to everyone/anyone since the start, I'm only allowing people who have stuck with the game up until now to post theories for the next part.
Those people being Rosa, Rudolf and Kinjo.

First Thread
http://www.seacats.net/gameboard/res/3421.html

Second Thread
http://www.seacats.net/gameboard/res/3806.html

_______


Battler and Erika ran out of the mansion. No place was safe to them. Shannon had been killed right in front of them and there was nothing they could do. Erika realized how weak she was. So they ran. Ran anywhere, as long as it was out of that mansion.

They reached the chapel. The moment they entered the silence in the air was destroyed by a gunshot that shook the ground. Battler looked down in shock as Erika’s outfit was painted the sickening color of red. She fell into Battler’s arms as the wound from her chest continued to leak. The tear filled eyes that lay in Battler’s skull looked up at the gun muzzle pointed at his head.

“So it was you… You’re the culprit!”

As Battler yelled the finger on the gun began to pull the trigger, and from the corner of the room a grandfather clock started to chime. It was midnight.

_______


Now then. First off, the mystery you need to solve here is the 'whodunnit'.
However I'm giving you three a choice.
You can either solve this mystery together as a group and get two blues. Or you can each make one blue of your own. If you choose the later option then I ask that you don't work together just so you can get one more blue. Additionally if you pick the later option I ask you send me each of your separate theories through email. When I say I have all three you can actually post them here.

The format of the blue shouldn't just be "X is the culprit" you'll also need to explain how that individual committed each murder. Most of the murders anyone could have done so that shouldn't be too hard. Just be ready to fight for your answer if I point out an inconsistency.

If the truth is still not found after using the blues given then I'll consider my win, but you can still make more theories if you would like.

Probably best to voice your opinions on the thread if you all can't be on at the same time. We'll see I guess.
Anyway, discuss among yourselves which choice you will make.
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>> No. 4112 edit
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4112
Hmm.. Interesting. Either option is fine with me. But I think the better option is teamwork.

Team option = 2 blues
The three of us seperate = 3 blues

However, we might all use the same theory, so therefore there is a chance we in fact only get 1 blue. So at best we could get 3 blues, (if very lucky) or at worst 1 blue.

So the team option is overall the safest method. Since we for sure get 2 blues.

Also from the way I see it, there is only 2 possible culprits anyway.

Beatrice; and the right one.
>> No. 4113 edit
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4113
I agree, teamwork should be the way to go.

I'll post the red here:

First twilight:

Upon discovery of the bodies, the door and window were locked. Additionally the key to the chapel was found inside of a letter which was underneath Rosa's head.
There is not an opening in the chapel's ceiling.
There is no auto lock on the chapel's door.
The door and windows are the only entrances and exits to the chapel.
Rosa's head is inside of the chapel.
The Chapel Key was found inside of the chapel.
The chapel door can only be locked from the outside with the Chapel key. There is only one Chapel Key.
There is no auto lock on any of the windows.
The culprit did not lock any window from outside of the chapel.
The windows are intact.
None of the people who died locked the window.
The window was locked from the inside.
At the moment the victims received their wounds they died and stopped moving.
When Erika entered the chapel and discovered the bodies she could only find 5. Those five bodies being Hideyoshi, George, Rosa, Kyrie, and Gohda.
The door to the chapel can be locked from the inside without a key.
Erika cut the heads of the bodies, they are dead.
The culprit did not set up a device to lock the door from the inside.
An accomplice locked the door from the inside.
The accomplice hid in the chapel. And locked the door after the culprit left.

>> No. 4114 edit
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4114
>>4113
Second twilight:

Upon discovery of the bodies the door and window were locked.
Inside of Kumasawa's pocket was her master key.
Each tape seal was still intact when Erika checked them.
Kanon's master key never left the servant room.
Shannon's master key never left the servant room.
Genji's master key never left the servant room.
The above applies to when Battler placed the seal on the door to servants room, to when Erika watched them leave the servants room.
Additionally, Gohda's key was disposed of once he was found dead. It is unusable.
The Nanjo and Kumasawa were not killed before before Battler placed the seals.
The window to the parlor was never opened this whole game!
Battler placed the seals minutes after Erika ordered him too. There is no deception to when the seals were placed.
The three intact seals are the same that Battler placed.
The seals were placed over the crack between the door frame and the door. If someone would to try to open the door while the seal is placed there it would rip.
When Genji opened the door he broke the seal. The door's lock was set when they arrived at the door.
The door's hinges were not removed.
When the door is locked and closed no one can pass through the doorway.
When the entrances are locked there is no way to project any objects into the room.
Additionally there are no other entrances or exits other than the window and door.
Nanjo is dead. His body is in the parlor.
Kumasawa is dead. Her body is in the parlor.
When the corpses were discovered no one was hiding in the room.
Nanjo and Kumasawa did not kill each other.
Neither Nanjo or Kumasawa committed suicide.
This was murder, not an accident.
There is no name trick involved with this murder.
The Nanjo and Kumasawa were not killed before Battler placed the seals.
Nanjo and Kumasawa did not die until after Battler placed all the seals.
Nanjo and Kumasawa did not die from lack of oxygen.
When Battler sealed the parlor only Nanjo and Kumasawa were inside of it.
When Battler sealed the parlor Nanjo and Kumasawa were not dying.
Poison wasn't used to kill Nanjo or Kumasawa.
A trap wasn't used to kill Nanjo or Kumasawa.
The killer entered the room, killed Nanjo and Kumasawa and then they left the room!
There is no auto-lock on the door.
Kumasawa's master key was found in the parlor, inside her pocket.
Kumasawa's key never left her pocket.
Kumasawa's pocket never left the parlor.
The parlor never left the mansion.
A door can be sealed only when it is fully closed.
Up to this point in the game no other tapes seals have existed aside from the ones either Battler or Erika placed.
When Erika checked after the second twilight the key to the parlor was in the key box.
No tape seals that Battler placed were broken until the moment Erika left her room upon waking up, which was in the main mansion.
No other exits or entrances in the parlor ever existed during this game aside from the door which leads into the hallway, and the windows

>> No. 4115 edit
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4115
>>4114
Second twilight, part two.


Battler Sealed:
A Guest room(the one Erika slept in)
The Parlor
Kinzo's Study
The Servants' room

Nothing entered or exited through the window in the parlor.
The parlor is 1 room, and it contains no other extra rooms.
Trap: a device set up previously, which is then triggered by something with the result of it being activated.
Kumasawa and Nanjo were killed in the parlor.
The culprit did not use any window in the parlor to enter or exit the room.
After Erika told Battler to seal the rooms he didn't enter the parlor until the discovery of the second twilight.
The culprit is not a bullet.
The culprit is not an object that interacted with the victims in a fatal way.
The culprit is the only one who can/will kill on this gameboard.
An accomplice cannot kill.
There is only one culprit.
The 'culprit' is not the murder weapon.
The person who killed is the culprit.
There is no word play regarding the 'killer' and the 'culprit'. They are the same thing.
The culprit is not an object, nor did it remain in the room after the murders were committed.
The culprit and killer are one and the same.
The culprit is responsible for the deaths of Nanjo and Kumasawa.
The culprit is a human being, or is shaped as a human being.
Van Dine #9: There must be only one detective in the story.
Each tape seal was still intact when Erika checked them.
The tape seals mentioned in that red truth apply to the one Erika put on the inside of her room, and the ones that Battler put on the Study, Servants' room, and the Parlor. Battler told her that the one he placed on her door broke when she opened the door upon awaking.
Battler didn't lock the door, he only sealed it.
Genji made Gohda's key unusable once Gohda was found dead.
Genji used his own master key to unlock the parlor.
If the seal was ever removed from where it was stuck and then put back Erika and or Battler would have been able to tell.
Nanjo and Kumasawa were dead when the survivors discovered the bodies.
I swear upon my role as Game Master that this is an honest mystery, with no jiggery pokery or nonsense involving tricks in narration: all mysteries presented are true mysteries that would remain such even if the events were experienced in person!
Battler sealed all the rooms one after another about a few minutes after Erika told him to.
Nanjo and Kumasawa were alive when Battler placed the last seal.
The detective cannot be the culprit. In this game Erika is the detective.
When Battler sealed the parlor door it was locked.
Neither Nanjo nor Kumasawa locked the parlor.
Entrance - An opening, such as a door, passage, or gate, that allows access to a place.
Exit - A way out, esp. of a public building, room, etc.
Battler is not an accomplice.
Battler is not the culprit.
Genji locked the parlor door when everyone split up.
When Battler sealed the door the person who had last locked the door was Genji.
Just because the tape seal was on the door it did not prevent someone from entering through the door, and due to reason X the tape seal did not break.
The culprit completely entered the parlor before killing Nanjo and Kumasawa.
Nanjo and Kumasawa were killed before Erika checked the seals.
In this gameboard animals didn't not murder or help to have a murder take place.
Between Genji locking the parlor door for the first time, and Battler sealing the parlor door, the number of people in the parlor never exceeded 2.
The culprit did not touch the seal on the parlor.
Between Battler sealing the parlor door and Genji breaking the seal on the parlor door, the number of people in the parlor never exceeded 4.
Between Battler sealing the parlor door and Genji breaking that seal, the number of people in the parlor was 3 or more at some point, and it was never less than 2, living or dead.
Neither Kumasawa or Nanjo left the room from the moment Genji locked the door to when their bodies were discovered.
It is not possible to enter through the door while it's closed. You would have to open it.
Battler and Genji were not the only people who touched the door during this gameboard.
If the door was opened from the inside or the outside while the seal was placed as I said it was, it would break the seal.
After Battler placed the seal to when Genji broke it, at least one other person touched the parlor door.
The culprit didn't touch any of the seals that Battler placed.
After Battler placed the seal to when Genji broke it, no more than two people touched the parlor door.
All the seals Erika put on the Parlor, Study and Servants' room were broken before the group split up.
From when Battler placed the seal on the parlor to when Genji broke it, Nanjo and Kumasawa did not touch the door.
Battler only placed a single seal on the door of each room.
Erika made Battler's seals, they are the same type of seal.
The tape seal was not placed on the keyhole.
The culprit pushed a pen/pencil/something similar under the tape seal lifted the part on the door frame up, thereby allowing someone to enter the room and not break the seal, since it is not currently blocking the door crack. They committed the murder and then exited the room. They then used the same item as before as a weight to push the free side of the tape seal back in the spot. Since it was never actually removed and then put back on Erika and Battler didn't notice.
And since they never touched the seal, it sneaks by that red as well.

>> No. 4116 edit
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4116
Fourth and Fifth twilights:

The doors and windows in the Study's bathroom and Library were locked when Battler left the room to check on Rudolf.
If someone opened the Study's main door it would have made a sound everyone in the study would have heard.
No one heard this sound once the door had locked behind them when entering the study to when Battler discovered the letter.
Neither Rudolf nor Genji left the study via the main room's window.
Kinzo did not lock that window.
The burnt corpse found does, without a doubt, belong to Rudolf.
The Main Study's Door will absolutely make the sound when it opens and or closes.
The culprit is not hiding in any place shown on the map.
From when everyone last saw Genji to when Battler left the study's parlor, nobody touched the main study's door.
Vokda was not used to commit any of these murders.
None of the windows or doors were removed. The exception is when Battler and Krauss broke down the doors to enter the rooms.
When the windows in the study are locked and closed there is no way for a human to pass through it without breaking the glass. All the windows were intact and were never broken.
Rudolf's corpse is in one piece.
The bathroom door was locked.
The bathroom door can only be locked from the inside.
No human in this game can fit through the window in the bathroom.
The bathroom door does not have an auto-lock.
No hidden passages exist in the bathroom.
None of those [Dumbwaiter, chimney, gaping hole in the floor. etc.] exist in the bathroom.
The only openings in the bathroom are the door and the window.
The air supply in the bathroom was never obstructed in any way.
Rudolf was murdered.
There was no rocket boots.
The door to the bathroom was locked from the inside while whatever caused it to be locked was in the room with it. No device in any other room of the study was used to lock the bathroom door.
When Erika checked on Rudolf's corpse Genji's was not inside of Kinzo's study.
Genji locked the bathroom door.
No one left during the commotion caused by the bashing-down-of-doors.
There is no hidden compartment in the bathroom.
That red only applies to Genji if he is a corpse. However if he is alive, that red doesn't apply at all.
Genji is alive.
Also Genji left simply after everyone else when they ran out to check on Rudolf's corpse.
Genji locked the bathroom door.
Genji was in contact with the object when the door was locked. The object was fully inside of the bathroom when the door was locked.
There are no rooms in the study not shown on that map.
A hidden compartment is not a room.
Hidden compartment; a hidden spot that only has one entrance which is also the only exit.
To use it [the object] Genji had to be touching it.
Genji cannot reach under the door.
The door had to be closed, only then could it be locked.
The door was locked via the method of the door's lock.
There are no hidden compartments in the kitchen, closet or main area.
Rudolf's corpse left through a window. That window was not in the kitchen or closet.
Genji did not touch the lock with his hand when he locked the bathroom door.
The last thing to lock one of the windows in the study's library, kitchen, and closet was a human hand.
Rudolf/Rudolf's corpse left the library via the window in the library. After this, Genji, who earlier hid in a hidden compartment in the library, locked the window.
The [bathroom] door was locked directly.
Nothing besides air passed under the door during this game.
Genji was not in the study's main room when he locked the bathroom door.
When Genji locked the door he was not in a room that I didn't show on the map.
Genji did not jump into a box of any kind.
Genji was inside the bathroom when he locked the door.
Up to this point Genji was never harmed in any way. He is intact.
There is only one Genji.
The window locks from the inside. What caused it to be locked could have come from the outside.
The bathroom window cannot only be locked by a human. Many things can lock it.
The window in the bathroom has an auto-lock.
Genji opened the window to the bathroom and then tied some string to the lock on the door. Genji threw Rudolf out the library window after locking the door and then grabbed the gutter on the roof. He then shimmied over to the bathroom window and used the string to lock the door. He then closed the window which because of the 'auto-lock' locked it and then went back to the library to lock the window as well as hide in the compartment. He then left the study have everyone had gone to check on Rudolf.

>> No. 4117 edit
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4117
Sixth and Seventh twilights:
When you checked the bathroom no one was hiding in it.
When you checked the closet no one was hiding in it
While you are investigating this room Battler, Erika and Shannon will follow you. Furthermore they have not stopped following you since you entered the room.
Yes, [the chain-lock] is still set.
From when Erika, Shannon and Battler entered the room to when you checked the closet no one has left Jessica's room.
Genji's key is inside the room.
Shannon's master key was not used to lock the door.
Shannon never touched or used Genji's master key.
Genji never used Kanon's key.
There was no suicide or accident.
There are no hidden or secret passages that someone could have entered or left the room through.
You find Kanon's master key.
Kanon is dead.
Jessica's key is inside the room.
Genji's key is broken and unusable.
Jessica's key is broken and unusable.
Jessica is alive.
Jessica did not fake her death and she didn't lock the door.
The corpse in the bathtub was murdered.
The killer knew exact who they were killing when they did so.
The pieces of flesh in the tub belonged to a female.
The hair found in the tub was from the same body the pieces of meat were from.
All the human parts found in the bathtub were from the same body.
The corpse found in the tub does not belong to a human Beatrice.
Lion does not exist on this gameboard.
Eva and Maria are still alive.

The number of people on Rokkenjima never exceeded 19.
The 19 people who were on the island at the start of the game were as follows;
Kinzo , Krauss , Natsuhi , Jessica , Eva, Hideyoshi, George , Rudolf, Kyrie, Battler, Rosa, Maria, Kanon, Shannon, Gohda, Genji, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Erika
If one of this people were to die they will still count as one of the 19 on the island.
No new people arrived on the island after the start of the game.

Kanon did not lock the door.
The hair in the tub is not from Natsuhi.
Krauss is a man.
The body/hair in the tub belongs to Rosa.
The culprit is still alive.
Rosa's natural hair color is not blonde.
The door can only be locked with a key.
The door was locked with a key while the person who locked it had the key in hand and was standing in the hallway.
Kanon's key never left his possession.
The keys were not in such a state [in pieces].
There are exactly five master keys.
Only the five master keys and Jessica's key can lock/unlock the door to Jessica's room.
There are no duplicates of Jessica's key.
If a key is 'unusable' then it cannot lock and or open any door.
Kumasawa's key is unusable.
Gohda's Key is unusable.
Genji's Key is unusable.
The key to Jessica's room is unusable.
The keys were not lowered into the room via hole made by the culprit in the floor, wall or ceiling.
Jessica was not inside her room when you entered. The windows in Jessica's room were never opened or closed.
You have already found everything you need to solve this mystery.
The keys were inside the tub when you first entered the room.
The keys entered through the drain.
After setting up Rosa's corpse to look like Jessica, Genji took the rope and tied one end to a weight. He then fed that end of the rope though one of the handles on the bathtub and then down the drain which had been cut so the weight was now hanging in the boiler room. He then took the other end of the rope and took it with him into the hallway where he then locked the door with his key. After locking the door he made the keys unusable. The unusable keys were then tied to the end of the rope in the boiler room. A cut was also made in that end of the rope. Once this was done Genji pulled the rope which then caused the keys to come up into the bathroom via the drain. Once it hit the handle the rope ripped leaving only the five inch piece.

>> No. 4119 edit
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4119
Eighth and Ninth twilights:

There are no duplicates of either one of the guest room keys.
Maria was not killed by the thumbtacks, the culprit took the knife and plunged it into her head.
A Guillotine like trap was not used to kill Shannon.
Maria did not have any key on her when she died.
Wind did not move the door to make it move, it was moved by human hands.
The only time a master key was used on either one of these doors was when Shannon unlocked Guest Room A's door.
Room B was locked when Erika inserted the key into the lock in order to unlock the door.
Guest room B was not locked in a such a way. It was locked with Guest room B's key.
For the closed room trick, the culprit would just need to do the following: unlock the doors to both Room A and Room B, place the key to Room A inside Room B, exit Room B and lock it with the key to Room B. Then go to Room A, set the chain and lock the door, place the key to Room B inside, and hide inside somewhere that wasn't checked, such as the bathroom or under the bed.
When Room B was locked Maria was dead.
The scream they heard was a recording.

>> No. 4120 edit
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4120
That's a lot of red.
>> No. 4122 edit
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4122
List of possible suspects.

Natsuhi - Went missing on the first twilight (suspected to be dead, but no red or a corpse)

Jessica - Her death was faked by Genji. Reason behind it?

Genji - Red has said he did this, he did that, time and time again, but never does it say he killed anyone. Strange, isn't it.

Krauss - Jessica is alive, which would make a reason why her death was faked if he was the culprit.

Kinzo - In his study all the time, could have been the culprit.

Eva - She vanishes at the time of the second twilight, her wereabouts are unknown during that twilight, she could be anywhere.

Problems:

Natsuhi - Rudolf's death, it is a little hard for her to commit it. She would have had to be inside the study before everyone entered, and then leave via a window.

Jessica - 2nd twilight she should have been inside the study. Which had a seal placed by Battler which was not broken until after Kumasawa's and Nanjo's deaths. For her to know about to seal, and be smart and leave through the window, or have someone help her escape is strange and reaks of GM giving the pieces extra knowledge just to complicate things.

Genji - The only problem with him is that it seems to have been given to us on a silver platter. And why would he fake Jessica's death?

Krauss - Same as Jessica.

Kinzo - Should be the same as the two above, but we really don't know if he was there at the time.

Eva - We have no clue where she was during part of the game. But her killing George and Hideyoshi and sparing Jessica sounds really strange.

These are just the possible culprits I thought of and the problems that first came to my mind. There might be more or less for that matter.
>> No. 4123 edit
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4123
>>4122
Remember that we also need to look for an accomplice. Naturally I suspect Genji of this, but who knows.
>> No. 4124 edit
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4124
>>4123
Well, we knew Genji has done things like locked the bathroom door, and the libray window. And fake Jessica's corpse. And we know someone opened the servant's room window during the 2nd twilight. And either left with the key (Genji) or handed the key to someone. Which I would think make Kanon and Shannon question things, unless they are also in on it. Which is a possibilty.
>> No. 4125 edit
Ozaki has confirmed that Eva's location is unknown for the 2nd twilight and that everyone else went where they were said to have gone.

So we can eliminate the culprits down to these few.

Genji
Natsuhi
Eva
Kinzo
>> No. 4127 edit
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4127
All right Ozaki here is our first blue.

The culprit is Natsuhi. With Genji as an accomplice.

1st Twilight: Natsuhi faked her death.

2nd Twilight: Before the servants arrived Natsuhi snuck into the room and took the parlor's key. She killed Nanjo and Kumasawa and then returned the key.

4th Twilight: Natsuhi left a trap in the bathroom using the bottle. (switched labels, pills) Genji threw the corpse out the window where Natsuhi lit it on fire.

6th twilight: Natsuhi killed Kanon while fighting with him, then Genji set up the trick.

8th Twilight: Natsuhi set up like Kinjo explained, hid in the room. Killed Shannon and then left.
>> No. 4128 edit
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4128
>>4127
Natsuhi is not the culprit!

However you are correct, Genji is an accomplice.

Well then lets see how the twilights went.

First Twilight:
Well, if you call her being missing a faked death then yeah that did happen.
Natsuhi went 'missing' on her own accord.

Second Twilight:
The key was in the room when the servants entered.

Fourth Twilight:
You are correct. The culprit filled the stomach relief bottle with lethal drugs. These killed Rudolf.
Genji was the one to light the body on fire. Molotov cocktails, hence the glass etc.

Sixth Twilight:
The culprit killed Kanon while fighting with him, then Genji set up the trick.

Eighth Twilight:
I've already repeated in red what Kinjo said.
>> No. 4129 edit
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4129
>>4128
We're close... everything except for the whodunnit...

All of those people disappearing seems awfully convenient for giving us trouble with the whodunnit...
>> No. 4130 edit
>>4128
Seems I messed up on that second twilight.
As Kinjo said in the stream "Genji enters, takes the key, leaves the room, then gives the key to the culprit, then enters the room again"
In any case that is not the exact method but it works enough that I'll give you the answer.
Genji passed the key through the window in the bathroom of the servants room while Kanon and Shannon were in the main part of the room.

You never really knew the layout of the servants room etc.

Anyway one more blue to go.
>> No. 4131 edit
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4131
Ok culprit list time.

Kinzo:

1st Twilight: Possible
2nd Twilight: Possible
4th Twilight: Possible
6th Twilight: Possible
8th Twilight: Possible

However, Kinzo's study was sealed before the first twilight, and there is no hint or meantion of it possibly being broken when group A enters the study at 2nd twilight. Since Ozaki said not the overcomplicate things, I feel this also falls under that.

Krauss:

1st Twilight: Possible
2nd Twilight: Possible? He should be in Kinzo's study which was sealed and did not get broken. I suppose he could have left through a window, but how would he get back up? And really it just sounds a little over complicated and silly.

4th Twilight: Possible
6th Twilight: Possible
8th Twilight: Possible

Natsuhi: Not the culprit

However she goes missing for Reason X. Why would she run and hide? Covering up something? Hiding from someone? Staying safe while her daughter or husband kill everyone?

Jessica:

1st Twilight: Possible
2nd Twilight: Possible? She should be in Kinzo's study which was sealed and did not get broken. I suppose she could have left through a window, but how would she get back up? And really it just sounds a little over complicated and silly.

4th Twilight: Possible
6th Twilight: Possible
8th Twilight: Possible

Another fake corpse and missing person. Reason unknown. Could Genji have been trying to save her from the culprit? Could her father have faked her death so they can be a happy family after it is all over.

Eva:

1st twilight: Possible
2nd twilight: Possible
4th Twilight: Possible
6th Twilight: Possible
8th Twilight: Possible

Eva has the chance to be anywhere during the 2nd twilight. So if she isn't the culprit where is she?

She also is the person who checks the food, so she could have easily put something in Rudolf's share to upset his stomach.

But why would she kill her son and husband? Did she really actual hate them? Depressed just wanted to end it all? All the fighting over the money cause problems? Her to realize how ****ed up her family is and decide to kill them all to help the world? Accidentally killed them, and then was forced to kill more to cover it all up?

Hideyoshi: Died.

George: Died.

Rudolf: Died.

Kyrie: Died.

Battler: Not Culprit.

Rosa: Died.

Maria: Died.

Nanjo: Died.

Genji: Accomplice.

Kumasawa: Died.

Gohda: Died.

Kanon: Died.

Shannon: Died.

Erika: Not culprit.

Motive wise - Jessica or Krauss have the best I believe going by victims. But the thing is there is no way to really pick one over the other, they both have the same fault in theory. So I believe by that logic we can elimate both.

Twilight Wise, Eva is the strongest having no blocks in her way to commit the murders.

And then we have Kinzo in the middle. Who has the block of "Can he leave the study during 1st and 2nd twilights." But we also run into the problem of why does Natsuhi and Jessica live, and where does Eva go. Which unless we can give solid reasons (To the Eva one at least) we can't really use this theory without having that huge hole.
>> No. 4132 edit
Seeing as it's been harder to get everyone together in the same night I won't set that deadline that I was talking about. At least not so soon. In any case, the next night you three are all on I'll expect that last blue so we can finish it up.
>> No. 4133 edit
File 132181699097.jpg - (4.83KB , 160x140 , th_j1.jpg )
4133
>>4132
We don't need to all be on at the same time to gather ideas and discuss them. If people would post. It wouldn't be all that hard to figure out and decide who we want to use our next blue on if we talked about it. Just a few posts. All it takes is a little dedication to go to the computer, go to seacats, type up a short post, 15-20 min tops. But whatever.
>> No. 4134 edit
File 13085519958.png - (379.28KB , 1023x682 , GundamBrightangry.png )
4134
Notes on Ozaki’s Game
1. Before and during 1st
a. Erika solved the epitaph
b. Erika also tape sealed all the doors after leaving the adults to figure out what to do with the ten tons of gold
2. Before and during 2nd
a. Rudolf, Jessica, Maria and Krauss went up to Kinzo’s study (how did they get in?)
b. Rudolf and Krauss emerge with Winchesters despite the fact that Kinzo is alive
i. Why would Kinzo let them have Winchesters? Unless he didn’t…
ii. Which would mean he either was forced, or didn’t know (and didn’t know could be sneaking which I doubt, or perhaps he wasn’t there at the time)
iii. And if he wasn’t there, how did they get in?
c. The tape seals have been shown to be not-so-reliable, perhaps even in the case of trying to leave the room (for whoever the culprit is would know what a tape seal is and what it’s for)
3. Before and during 4th
a. Everyone went to Kinzo’s study
b. Ozaki says the adults are surprised to see Kinzo alive (which means he might not have been in there when the earlier group came here)(although that group’s “adults” were Rudolf and Krauss, and Krauss would have known the answer regardless)
c. Eva made sure the food was not poisoned. That’s the only time I ever really hear her name up to this point. What if she poisoned the food to give Rudolf a terrible stomach ache?
i. If this is the case, then the pills really don’t have to have been poisoned at all
d. There’s a line here regarding Battler worrying about his father
i. This is clearly a logic error as Rudolf is actually just “another person”
e. I’m not sure if the books being on the floor constitute any sort of greater plan but I doubt it
4. Before and during 5th
a. This is when everyone else conveniently disappears
i. Back track to find Shannon outside study “waiting”
1. Waiting for what?
2. Why was she not let in sooner?
3. Was she there merely to direct you to the next room?
4. Is it just bad writing on Ozaki’s part and that’s the most convenient way to get us to go to that room?
5. Herpderp Ad Hominem?
b. We never addressed the smashed mirror (is it important? I doubt it though)
5. Before and during last twilights
a. Shannon cries about Kanon and a butterfly broach (why?)

I think I may have found evidence pointing to Eva and Kinzo but I'm absolutely sure I'm still over-thinking things
>> No. 4135 edit
File 13220838499.png - (21.23KB , 100x100 , rosa.png )
4135
>>2. Before and during 2nd
a. Rudolf, Jessica, Maria and Krauss went up to Kinzo’s study (how did they get in?)
b. Rudolf and Krauss emerge with Winchesters despite the fact that Kinzo is alive
i. Why would Kinzo let them have Winchesters? Unless he didn’t…
ii. Which would mean he either was forced, or didn’t know (and didn’t know could be sneaking which I doubt, or perhaps he wasn’t there at the time)
iii. And if he wasn’t there, how did they get in?

Hmm.. Well Genji could have lent the key to Kinzo's study to Krauss, or maybe Krauss has the other key, or possibly Kinzo let them in.

Kinzo also almost seems doll like. He doesn't seem to show emotion nor talk. I wonder if there is a reason for that.

Also it says that Krauss and Rudolf went to Kinzo's gun collection and took them, so I don't think Kinzo even knew about it.

>>c. The tape seals have been shown to be not-so-reliable, perhaps even in the case of trying to leave the room (for whoever the culprit is would know what a tape seal is and what it’s for)

Well the thing is Battler placed them after everyone had entered right? So those inside Kinzo's study shouldn't even know a seal was placed.

So Krauss and Jessica should have no idea (And Kinzo if he is inside at the time) that the study got resealed. So it is pretty safe to assume that the group that went to Kinzo's study could not have commited the 2nd twilight. Since they would have had to have gained meta knowledge and learn about the seal being placed again, to move to escape the room without breaking it.

>>b. Ozaki says the adults are surprised to see Kinzo alive (which means he might not have been in there when the earlier group came here)(although that group’s “adults” were Rudolf and Krauss, and Krauss would have known the answer regardless)

Who is an adult though? Do Shannon, Kanon, Jessica, and Battler count? What about Erika? It is hard to tell who is an 'adult.' This could be a clue that yes Kinzo wasn't in the room when the group entered before, but it could also mean that the group simply didn't enter the bedroom/whatever room Kinzo was in at the time, since they didn't want to be seen. But whoknows which way to take it, exactly.

>>c. Eva made sure the food was not poisoned. That’s the only time I ever really hear her name up to this point. What if she poisoned the food to give Rudolf a terrible stomach ache?
i. If this is the case, then the pills really don’t have to have been poisoned at all

Actually, if Rudolf had died from the poisoned food, who would then be blammed, Eva would be. Saying she is going to check the food, and saying it was fine, and then someone dying from poison would make her look guilty.

Now checking the food, makes her look innocent. Since she is thinking of their safety it appears. And then setting up a round-about trap is perfect. (at least in my opinon) The trao in the food didn't kill him, so therefore it looks fine, like Eva did her job correctly and is perfectly innocent. And since you can get a stomach ache from simply eating to fast, or other simple common problems, it wouldn't make everyone suspect her, for 1 person to get sick. Which also would explain why the body was burned to cover up the fact that he was poisoned, since that would make Eva look questionable.

>>i. This is clearly a logic error as Rudolf is actually just “another person”

haha

>>4. Before and during 5th
a. This is when everyone else conveniently disappears
i. Back track to find Shannon outside study “waiting”
1. Waiting for what?
2. Why was she not let in sooner?
3. Was she there merely to direct you to the next room?
4. Is it just bad writing on Ozaki’s part and that’s the most convenient way to get us to go to that room?
5. Herpderp Ad Hominem?

It is possibly Shannon returned because she expected everyone possibly to return there, and expected Kinzo to let her inside. Who might have not because he was killed or couldn't, or isn't even inside.

Now Shannon's story, if it is true. It might be that Eva or Krauss whispered to the other, "I think I know who killed your spouse." That might be good enough get them to follow you, and they take Maria with, because they are afraid Shannon might be in on it. (Servants plot, ect)

Or maybe they believe the servants (well some of them) want the gold, and therefore they don't trust Shannon so they escape from her. Maybe Eva or Krauss convience the other that this is the case and Shannon is an enemy.

Now if they all leave together that raises a question why don't they all stay together. We know either they had got killed then. (Maria's death shows this.) Or one of them kills the other two when they get alone.

>>b. We never addressed the smashed mirror (is it important? I doubt it though)

It probably just means that Kanon fought with whoever tried to kill him.

>>5. Before and during last twilights
a. Shannon cries about Kanon and a butterfly broach (why?)

Going by ep6 if we assume the butterfly broach is hinting at the love-trial. Then maybe it means that Kanon lost, which would mean Jessica lost as well, therefore meaning she can't be a culprit.

Come to think of it, maybe Natsuhi didn't go into hiding, maybe she is sneaking around the mansion and is an accomplice. Maybe she followed Battler around and watched him place the seals, and therefore helped Krauss or Jessica escape from Kinzo's study, or even Kinzo for that matter.
>> No. 4136 edit
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4136
Also something interesting, Battler and Erika are killed by a gunshot.

Which as far as we know, I believe only 2 guns have been meantioned existing.

Krauss has one, but we don't know what happened to Rudolf's. Since Erika and Battler didn't find it near Rudolf's corpse, I'm guessing Genji took it.

Now let's just assume there are only 2 guns in this game. Since if there were more why didn't they take them? Give 1 to Jessica, or Eva later on, ect.

Now Genji could have given the gun to anyone at any time. So that doesn't really help us much. He could have given it to Kinzo, or Jessica, or Eva.

Hmm.. looking at Kanon's death I just noticed something.

>Eva and Maria are still alive.

I passed over this red without much thought until now.

Think about it; if Maria, Krauss and Eva all left Shannon together. Wouldn't they stay together? I see no reason why they would split up unless one of them dies, and then they leave the corpse behind.

So Krauss wouldn't go after to kill Jessica right. So that means that if Maria is still alive Eva, Krauss and Maria must still be together. For if Eva killed Krauss already so she could go kill Jessica and Kanon, why not kill Maria before? Simple logic says, that Maria would be in the way, the culprit doesn't care if they kill Maria it seems, so why not kill her now and just be done with it?

So I believe we can assume at the time Kanon was killed to the time Erika starts looking around Jessica's room.

1. Eva, Krauss, and Maria are all still alive.
2. Someone (Jessica or Kinzo) appeared in front of the group and killed Krauss, Eva and Maria then ran for their lives and are still running.

3. Shannon lied.

I think we can cross off 3 for making the story overly complex though.

So going by this logic, we can deduce that Kanon's killer has to be either Jessica or Kinzo.
>> No. 4137 edit
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4137
>>4136
>3. Shannon lied.
>I think we can cross off 3 for making the story overly complex though.

Well, I wouldn't count it out so soon. After all, most of Umineko's mysteries are solved by saying "that never happened" or "it was all a lie", so the same could be said here. So at the very least I don't think it would make things overly complicated if Shannon really did lie.

But then again, this is Ozaki's gameboard, so he might not be playing by those rules.
>> No. 4139 edit
File 132208665514.png - (47.29KB , 132x300 , rosa-dress.png )
4139
>>4137
Well, we should be able to explain why she lied then. Her motive should make complete sense with the answer, and thereby almost for sure making her an accomplice, yet she doesn't seem to be one.

Also more thoughts about things.

Jessica has an asthma attack which causes her and Kanon to go off together.

My first question is why do only they go off together? Why doesn't everyone travel together?

Also is this just a way to sepearte 2 more victims? Or a trap by Jessica to snag a victim and fake her death?

Think about it, Jessica should have been with Kanon, yet she lives. Which means 1 of four things.

1. She is the culprit.
2. She is an accomplice.
3. The culprit doesn't want to kill her.
4. She was saved by Genji. Genji told her to run or something and he set up to fake her death before the culprit arrived.

But here is some questions.

1. If Genji wanted to save Jessica from getting killed why didn't she go out the window.

This makes it seem like she was either not in the room, or is safe from the culprit for some reason.

2. The fake corpse seems to have been set up right before Genji locked the door.

This completely shatters the idea that Genji was trying to save her, since Kanon was already dead, meaning the culprit already knew that Jessica was fine, so setting up a fake corpse is pointless.

Also the idea for setting all this up to fake a Jessica corpse, does not seem last minute, so that means that Jessica's 'death' had been planned from the start.

Which in my mind means either accomplice or culprit. Since she has to be aware of what is going on, and know, (Don't go back with the others go into hiding or whatever) since I'm pretty sure she would be suspected if she suddenly returned from the dead.
>> No. 4140 edit
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4140
>>4139
No matter how I think about it, it all boils down to a "Krauss's family culprit" theory.

Natsuhi goes missing, Jessica's death is faked, and Krauss has a gun. In other words, all of their loved ones are safe, so they lose nothing.

Genji would obediently follow his master's orders, so if Kinzo passed down the headship to Krauss, he'd do anything Krauss would say.

Eva lost both Hideyoshi and George in the first twilight, so I seriously doubt she is the culprit. But if she isn't the culprit, then why does she suddenly disappear? Is it because the missing Natsuhi found her and killed her? If we limit the murderer to just one person, then that means Krauss killed her.

We know that Eva and Maria were alive, but not Krauss. Using meta-knowledge that could have been a tactic by Ozaki to make us doubt that Krauss was alive, and thus doubt that he's the culprit. The same tactic used for both Jessica and Natsuhi if we hadn't investigated further and shot that blue truth earlier.
>> No. 4141 edit
>>4140
*not necessarily Krauss
>> No. 4142 edit
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4142
>>4141
DERP.

All of you, read the text before the fourth twilight again. I'm pretty sure I just figured out what to do with Kinzo.
>> No. 4143 edit
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4143
>>4142
If you are saying he is dead at that point, that's wrong. Ozaki told me he was alive.

Also something to think about, when did Genji run over to the chapel to pick up Rosa's head? when did he even have time?

Does he have enough time to get to the chapel and back to Jessica's room, when Erika and Battler go to check on the corpse?

Kinzo could have done it if he wasn't in the study at the 2nd twilight.

Natsuhi could have done it at any time.

Eva could have done it during the 2nd twilight.

Does Genji have an actual chance to go do that even?
>> No. 4144 edit
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4144
>>4143
Wait, Ozaki really said Kinzo was alive?

There were lots of hints pointing to his death, though. No red confirming he was ever alive, Erika never actually saw him, he was "reading a book", hadn't spoken in months, stayed in the same room, in a "trance-like state", fell "asleep", etc.

Either way, about Rosa's head. It's possible that when the corpses were first discovered Genji grabbed it and stuck it somewhere inside the mansion to use later on, if he was thinking that far ahead, no pun intended.
>> No. 4145 edit
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4145
>>4144
Unfortunately, yes he did.

I brought up the idea that Kinzo was dead in that scene, and brought up the hints, and he replied by telling me that Kinzo was in fact alive.
>> No. 4146 edit
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4146
For the way I see things right now I suspect either Kinzo or Jessica.

Eva makes little sense despite having the chance.

Krauss, makes little sense as well. For why didn't he kill Eva and Maria right away, he even had the gun.

Jessica, makes the most sense of anyone.

Kinzo, has 0 motive and reason for doing it. But Krauss family culprit seems to be too easy, so kind of makes me want to say he is the culprit. But he really looks too out of it to be the culprit, honestly.

Maybe he is being drugged.
>> No. 4147 edit
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4147
Just a little reminder.
This is a Devil Roulette game. As Kinjo his creator knows this game is in a way similar than his fight against meta in his fourth teaparty.
This game was about the DM trying to use red and loopholes in a way to confuse and make the game as long as possible. Maybe even changing a bit the solution while you make this.
Because of that, just looking at the small details may not be the best way to understand this game. Nope, maybe it's more simple.
>> No. 4149 edit
File 132209422922.jpg - (2.46MB , 2636x3593 , 477276.jpg )
4149
Just so you guys know. I never changed the culprit since the start of the game. Nor did I change the answers to any of the twilights once I posted them.
>> No. 4150 edit
File 130855077619.jpg - (14.59KB , 320x240 , 20060526063234!Bright_Noah_(Gundam).jpg )
4150
>>4146
But we have red that says Jessica did not fake her death.
>> No. 4151 edit
>>4149
That is not to say that I changed the 'why' either. Anyway, as anon said you are doing good etc.
>> No. 4152 edit
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4152
>>4150
It is like anon said above about loopholes. If Jessica does none of the work involved with faking her death, then you can say she did not fake her death, since Genji did all the work, he technically faked it for her.
>> No. 4153 edit
File 132216792589.jpg - (41.84KB , 640x480 , gundam-zz-07-bright-noa-chicken.jpg )
4153
>>4152
To me though the red just seems to sound like she had nothing to do with her faking at all. If she is the culprit, then I would think she would have told Genji to fake her death.

That she did not fake her death means to me that she did not know of it or intend for it to happen.
>> No. 4154 edit
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4154
>>4153
Welcome to wordplaycats.
>> No. 4155 edit
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4155
>>4154
It's me, Rudolf. I'm just posting with pictures of Bright because Rudolf looks so much like him. That and also because I'm a Gundam fan at heart
>> No. 4156 edit
>>4155
Not even trolling, I was being ironic. But it's no fun if I need to explain it.
>> No. 4158 edit
File 132004742436.jpg - (72.55KB , 524x800 , 5bac436e0c9584a47e69adfede1b70fea70d55f7.jpg )
4158
>>4153
The red just says "Jessica did not fake her death."

Now if I knew someone was going to give someone else a piece of a pie I baked, but I was not the person who actually gave the piece. I can say in red. "Rosa did not give away the slice of pie." Since I did not give it away, but I did bake it. So while I did have a part and came up with the idea for the pie, I did not do the part the red is referring to.

Wordplay - Seacats = nuff said.
>> No. 4159 edit
File 131250851398.png - (73.26KB , 321x480 , rud_majimea1.png )
4159
>>4158
It's not only possible, but also highly likely that Natsuhi is another accomplice. If she "disappeared" in the first twilight perhaps she was the accomplice in the chapel who locked the door behind the culprit...
>> No. 4160 edit
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4160
>>4159
Yeah, Natsuhi defintely seems like an accomplice.

Now that we got a little more update on the
'most of the adults.' We can confrim that Kinzo was in his study when Krauss, Rudolf, Maria, and Jessica entered.

So it seems like he doesn't have much chance to be the culprit anymore.

Eva seems impossible if Natsuhi is helping. I just can't see them working together.

So that just leaves Krauss and Jessica.

Krauss should have been with Eva and Maria at the time of Kanon's death, and since he has a gun already why wouldn't Kanon have been shot to death, instead of stabbed. Why put down your good weapon for a weaker one?

Jessica seems to have to best chance to be the culprit in my opinion. Shannon's story can be completely true and fit with a Jessica culprit.

Jessica faked an asthma attack to draw Kanon away, so she could kill him.

And if Natsuhi helped her escape from Kinzo's study in the 2nd twilight it would make sense, they would know they need to do the same trick to get by the parlor door.
>> No. 4161 edit
As you guys already know, today is the deadline. Luckily it's the weekend so I'm assuming there won't be much problems with people being online. Excluding Rudolf since he said he'll probably be busy.
>> No. 4163 edit
File 130932785262.png - (344.17KB , 400x533 , kinjo_limesfin.png )
4163
The culprit is Jessica. Her accomplices are Natsuhi and Genji.

First twilight. Illusion to illusion.
The vanishing victim locks the closed room shut.


(Jessica kills the five, then leaves the chapel. Natsuhi stays behind to lock the door, then hides somewhere.)

Second twilight. Illusion to illusion.
Imperfect seals create the illusion of two perfect closed rooms.


(Genji gives Natsuhi the key and a crowbar through the servants' room window. Natsuhi uses the crowbar to help Jessica escape from the study without breaking a seal, and then uses the crowbar to have Jessica enter the parlor without breaking that seal too. Jessica kills the two and leaves without breaking the seal.)

Fourth twilight. Illusion to illusion.
The second vanishing victim reveals the second accomplice.


(Genji showed off his ninja skills and escaped the study, you know the rest.)

Fifth twilight. Earth to earth.
The man who turned to drugs got a taste of the wrong medicine.


(Jessica planted the lethal drugs in the stomach relief bottle when she was in the study earlier, which killed Rudolf. At this point his gun was taken by Genji.)

Sixth twilight. Illusion to illusion.
The sheep who went alone with a wolf unknowingly sealed its own fate.


(Kanon took Jessica to her room thinking she needed her inhaler, then she killed him. Genji covered her tracks by setting up the closed room.)

Seventh twilight. Illusion to illusion.
The unseen killer lurking in the shadows continues to commit murder.


(Jessica was hiding inside the room, killed Shannon, then hid again. The closed rooms were set up as I explained, and either Genji or Natsuhi shook the door from the outside after they heard Shannon scream and die.)

Eighth twilight. Illusion to illusion.
Closed room television set creates a distortion in the time of death.


(The recording on the TV made it so Maria's scream was heard even after her death, which took place before Shannon's. The closed room was set up as I explained.)

Ninth twilight. Earth to earth.
There are no lies in their deaths as told.


(Genji gave Jessica the gun and told her where Erika and Battler had gone. She followed and finished both of them off.)

When the seagulls cry, there are no survivors.

(Except maybe Eva, she probably escaped to Kuwadorian unharmed. Jessica's family and Genji are safe too though. But it's cooler to say that no one survived, etc.)
>> No. 4165 edit
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4165
>>4163
Everything thing there would have been correct, even the part about Eva, however you are wrong. Jessica isn't the culprit.

The culprit is Krauss.
Natsuhi and Genji were his accomplices.
If you replaced Jessica with Krauss in those 'howdunits' it would be the answer.


There is no winner. This turned into an experiment using the DR style of game.
You guys without a doubt solved it, but simply because you only had two blues, you arrived at a 50/50 chance of success.

In any case this was a great amount of fun, and like I said, you guys did a great job even if you were against the odds.

Well then, there is that one last "mystery" I promised. The game originally was going to end differently, in which case this next trick would have worked well. In any case I imagine you'll get it right away.

When Erika was shot:
Eva was in the Kuwadorian
Krauss was in his Study
Kinzo was in his Study.
When it turned midnight a bomb went off and killed everyone except for Eva.


How was Erika killed?
>> No. 4166 edit
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4166
>>4165
The chapel is inside Krauss's study.
>> No. 4168 edit
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4168
>>4166
Close enough, Krauss's Study is inside the Chapel.
It's also the place Natsuhi hide during the first twilight.

Well that's that, well done.
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